[600MRG] Request
dickbolt at comcast.net
dickbolt at comcast.net
Tue Sep 3 12:56:01 CDT 2013
Please remove my Email from list, dickbolt at comcast.net thanks for working you mode. Sorry I will not be into it! Dick W1DGA
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Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:12:24 PM
Subject: 600MRG Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. WD2XSH/6 tonight (Pat Hamel)
2. WSPRX resync question (Pat Hamel)
3. Re: WSPRX resync question (Larry)
4. Re: WSPRX resync question (Neil Klagge)
5. Re: WSPRX resync question (John Langridge)
6. Re: WSPRX resync question (John Langridge)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 20:54:37 -0500
From: "Pat Hamel" <pehamel at cableone.net>
To: "SHMRG" <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Subject: [600MRG] WD2XSH/6 tonight
Message-ID: <693F831612974AB6B2C2970F678446CF at MrSamPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
WD2XSH/6 is QRSS3 on 475.322kc tonight until 05:00Z
ANY reports will be really appreciated.
73,
Pat /6
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 08:38:34 -0500
From: "Pat Hamel" <pehamel at cableone.net>
To: "SHMRG" <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Subject: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
Message-ID: <6742D28249434185B7B3DD29DC2848C3 at MrSamPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The past week or so I have had a good trace on the waterfall but no decodes.
I resync the computer to time.windows.com every night after I turn off my
QRSS3 beacon to let WSPRX run all night unless storms are predicted.
Last night in an hour I finally got only one capture, and it said the DT
(time delta) was 2.3 seconds.
For some reason time.nist.com is not available here, is time.windows.com
actually off by 2.3 seconds ?
Thank you,
Pat W5THT & WD2XSH/6
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 06:58:12 -0700
From: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>
To: Pat Hamel <pehamel at cableone.net>
Cc: SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
Message-ID: <5225EAF4.4070709 at w7iuv.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 03-Sep-13 6:38 AM, Pat Hamel wrote:
> The past week or so I have had a good trace on the waterfall but no decodes.
> I resync the computer to time.windows.com every night after I turn off my
> QRSS3 beacon to let WSPRX run all night unless storms are predicted.
> Last night in an hour I finally got only one capture, and it said the DT
> (time delta) was 2.3 seconds.
> For some reason time.nist.com is not available here, is time.windows.com
> actually off by 2.3 seconds ?
> Thank you,
> Pat W5THT & WD2XSH/6
Pat,
Look here for Stratum 1 servers and status:
http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
Look here for "pool" servers which you would probably have better luck with:
http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html
BTW, computer clocks can be very very bad. The one in the desktop I am
writting this on will drift 2 seconds every 15 minutes! The one out in
the shop is not much better.
I strongly suggest that you use time sync software that will
automatically check and sync often. Thats assuming you are actually
connected to the internet. If not than look into a GPS system.
I recommend "Dimension 4" (simplest) : http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/
or better yet Mienberg NTPD (complex):
http://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm
In any case, you have little or no hope of reliably copying WSJT/WSPR
signals unless you periodically sync your clock through the night.
73, Larry - W7IUV
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:29:59 -0700
From: Neil Klagge <w0yse.7 at gmail.com>
To: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>
Cc: SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>, Pat Hamel <pehamel at cableone.net>
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
Message-ID: <28621622-3790-45C7-8576-283734D18977 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Good answer, Larry. If I'd seen it earlier I wud not have needed to send Pat my comments. hi hi
Sent from Neil's iPhone
On Sep 3, 2013, at 6:58, Larry <larry at w7iuv.com> wrote:
> On 03-Sep-13 6:38 AM, Pat Hamel wrote:
>> The past week or so I have had a good trace on the waterfall but no decodes.
>> I resync the computer to time.windows.com every night after I turn off my
>> QRSS3 beacon to let WSPRX run all night unless storms are predicted.
>> Last night in an hour I finally got only one capture, and it said the DT
>> (time delta) was 2.3 seconds.
>> For some reason time.nist.com is not available here, is time.windows.com
>> actually off by 2.3 seconds ?
>> Thank you,
>> Pat W5THT & WD2XSH/6
>
> Pat,
>
> Look here for Stratum 1 servers and status:
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
>
> Look here for "pool" servers which you would probably have better luck with:
>
> http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html
>
> BTW, computer clocks can be very very bad. The one in the desktop I am writting this on will drift 2 seconds every 15 minutes! The one out in the shop is not much better.
> I strongly suggest that you use time sync software that will automatically check and sync often. Thats assuming you are actually connected to the internet. If not than look into a GPS system.
>
> I recommend "Dimension 4" (simplest) : http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/
>
> or better yet Mienberg NTPD (complex): http://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm
>
> In any case, you have little or no hope of reliably copying WSJT/WSPR signals unless you periodically sync your clock through the night.
>
> 73, Larry - W7IUV
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 600MRG mailing list
> 600MRG at w7ekb.com
> http://w7ekb.com/mailman/listinfo/600mrg_w7ekb.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:49:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Langridge <jlangridge at sbcglobal.net>
To: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>, Pat Hamel <pehamel at cableone.net>
Cc: SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
Message-ID:
<1378219744.89382.YahooMailNeo at web181301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have to second Larry's comments on the computer clock slide.? I use a registry hack to update my time hourly via one of the NIST servers.? I lose several seconds over the course of a few hours making that required 2 second window for WSPR almost impossible to achieve.
The crazy thing is that the computer clocks seem to have gotten worse over the last few years.? I recall using WSPR when it first came on the scene and only having to update the time about once a day...bizzare turn of events.
btw, its my understanding from a number of guys that have been runing side-by-side tests that WSPR-X is not as sensitive for WSPR2.? I run version 2.11 and while I have X loaded here, 2.11 is just easier to run for standard beaconing...
73,
XIQ
________________________________
From: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>
To: Pat Hamel <pehamel at cableone.net>
Cc: SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
On 03-Sep-13 6:38 AM, Pat Hamel wrote:
> The past week or so I have had a good trace on the waterfall but no decodes.
>? I resync the computer to time.windows.com every night after I turn off my
> QRSS3 beacon to let WSPRX run all night unless storms are predicted.
>? Last night in an hour I finally got only one capture, and it said the DT
> (time delta) was 2.3 seconds.
> For some reason time.nist.com is not available here, is time.windows.com
> actually off by 2.3 seconds ?
> Thank you,
> Pat W5THT & WD2XSH/6
Pat,
Look here for Stratum 1 servers and status:
http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi
Look here for "pool" servers which you would probably have better luck with:
http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html
BTW, computer clocks can be very very bad. The one in the desktop I am writting this on will drift 2 seconds every 15 minutes! The one out in the shop is not much better.
I strongly suggest that you use time sync software that will automatically check and sync often. Thats assuming you are actually connected to the internet. If not than look into a GPS system.
I recommend "Dimension 4" (simplest) : http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/
or better yet Mienberg NTPD (complex): http://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm
In any case, you have little or no hope of reliably copying WSJT/WSPR signals unless you periodically sync your clock through the night.
73, Larry - W7IUV
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600MRG mailing list
600MRG at w7ekb.com
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Langridge <jlangridge at sbcglobal.net>
To: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>
Cc: SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
Message-ID:
<1378224736.79578.YahooMailNeo at web181301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Good info Larry.? Thank you.? While I realize that every system is a little different, perhaps at some point you could make the hacks that you discovered available for public consumption.? It would at least be a starting point for someone seeking to try to solidify WSPR9.
I recall that last summer I spent a lot of time trying to understand the source of choppy TX signal when using 9-x... It was a driver problem and I was forced to use the directX driver rather than my traditional native driver.? That is not the case with 2.11.? The sound mapper selection works great and it looks at the system settings...
<In my opinion 15 minute transmit periods is counter productive
I agree with this 100%.? None of my junk is stable enough over that time frame anyway HI!
73,
John/XIQ/NJD
________________________________
From: Larry <larry at w7iuv.com>
To: John Langridge <jlangridge at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: Pat Hamel <pehamel at cableone.net>; SHMRG <600mrg at w7ekb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [600MRG] WSPRX resync question
On 03-Sep-13 7:49 AM, John Langridge wrote:
btw, its my understanding from a number of guys that have been
runing side-by-side tests that WSPR-X is not as sensitive for
WSPR2.? I run version 2.11 and while I have X loaded here, 2.11 is
just easier to run for standard beaconing...
John and everybody,
It is my opinion that WSJT9.x, MAP65, WSJT-X, and WSPR-X all have a
deficiency that Joe and the development team refuse to acknowledge.
There are many reports from the field that claim those programs
noted above have noticeably lower decode sensitivity than previous
versions.
Joe claims the decoders are all the same and have been tested
showing identical decode sensitivities. As best I can tell that
statement is correct but does not go far enough. As obvious as it
is, everyone seems to forget that there is much more to these
programs than just a decoder.
The issues I have discovered are all related to the digital
interface between the WSJT/WSPR applications and the soundcards
and/or the radios (in the case of I/Q radios like the softrock,
etc.)
Sample rates and timing (and phase for I/Q systems) are critical.
Soundcard drivers/codecs/etc. all pre-process the digital audio in
some manner and present it to the application. If in the process of
trying to determine if the driver needs to process
Dolby/Surround/THX/whatever, the sampling is modified, then the
WSJT/WSPR application suffers.
I found that soundcard drivers will many times load background
processes that cause problems with apparent decode sensitivy. These
process are invisible to the casual user and can only be found by
digging around in windows and maybe even the registry
In the case of my WSJT9.3 effort, it took several months of fooling
around before I found and eliminated all those background processes.
Now WSJT9.3 works flawlessly. I am still working on the MAP65
installation. With an I/Q system it seems harder or maybe I'm just
not a good enough windows mechanic to find all the crap.
I see no reason at all to use WSPR-X as long as WSPR 2/2.11 still
works. In my opinion 15 minute transmit periods is counter
productive.
73, Larry - W7IUV
------------------------------
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